Topic started by rAJA FaN (@ spider-wg071.proxy.aol.com) on Tue May 4 22:59:57 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
I was listening to Kaadhalar Dinam song: Kaadhelennum Ther.... (the only likeable song in that film by the way and I am in love with this ARR song after so many years!!) I began to understand why IR is losing a hold on today's (students) audience. ARR has very little music to offer and that is his absolute strength! Come On, IR fans look at it in a different perspective. ARRs approach is straightforward. Whatever little, package it well, spread it thin and out, give it a consistent and steady rhythm, forget the interlude, (who can sing them anyway)make it seem more introspective like a cricket 5 day test match, slow, deliberate and enough time in between for discussion on what is likely next, etc. ARR's lack of musical spontaneity is his greatest strenght, whereas IR's spontaneity is his greatest drawback in the all of 90s. Too thick for anyone of today' world to enjoy it in a leisurely pace without being knocked out by the complex arrangements, now very predictable sequences in the pallavi(algorithmic), interludes and charanam (usually where you see the ingenious and unpredictable IR, but even then..) Please don't think that IRs songs before the 90s come under attach here, no way. That is the golden age unfortunately of the analogue age!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But, my intent is to open up a discussion to throw in the many songs that I felt that IR gave too much music and that is why he could not attract the real music buyers (not lovers, mind you, there is a difference!) Even his sons are having so much in each of their songs, it is difficult to enjoy as much as you can enjoy an ARR song, even though you wonder how the heck did you enjoy it. Welcome to the digital world of new age music, where little is much better than a lot of music.
- Old responses
- From: e.hari (@ abd66825.ipt.aol.com)
on: Thu May 6 20:27:59 EDT 1999
You have raised geniune reason for downfall of IR music. But He has been doing this lyrics for tune from early 80s and it never seemed to be a problem then. There ought to be some other reason too. But can we know for sure that IR never asked kannadasan to write lyrics for his tune?.
On the flip side, There are few songs, where those beat changes were divine, one song, I loved is ' Iravu nilavu' from anjali. In the end of each saranam, he suddenly changes the beat from drums to triples, before starting the pallavi again, it was very subtle, but very well done. I used to rewind this part of the song every time, I listen.
IR also tried to use different rhytms for a single song. 'oh vasantha roja' from neengal keetavai, IR used two different tabla (BB where ru) patterns for each end of saranam. I think, he tried in the song 'raja rajathi raja' too.
Most of the new songs, we are missing that creative IR, we used to adore.
- From: vyaas (@ ascella.anonymizer.com)
on: Thu May 6 22:44:42 EDT 1999
who say wrong approach of Raja??He uses he best singers in the music field like Bhavatharini(man what a different voice, i just adore her voice),Ila Arun(thanks IR for introducing such a pleasant singer) hariharan, Srinivas, mahalakshmi
and himself(you know IRs voice can suit anyone from MGR(hes unfortunate no to have IR to sing for him),Sivaji, ajithkumar, prashanth,kamal,
Silambarasan(who knows?). He uses the right instrument and never copies. Please dont compare a genius like IR to other music directors, hes always well ahead of his time
- From: eden (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Fri May 7 00:43:55 EDT 1999
There's one thing common about all these HCARR fans or rather HCIR bashers who frequent DF : Either they are quite unclear as to what they want to communicate or they fumble in their language. Classic examples are the two posts above (Vyass, MM)! The others are already well known - ARR fan & RF!!!
- From: Ram K (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Fri May 7 02:10:03 EDT 1999
Well, i am one music fan of IR who cannot agree that there is too much of music in his numbers these days. Actually, what has happened in these years is that raja has gone slightly offtrack and is not even interested in doing the music for the same kind of movies. Recent movies like NMK, Rajasthan did have some scope for IR but except a few numbers the two albums draw a flak. It is quite unfortunate that his twonon-film albums are not yet released.
- From: kadipattavan (@ webgate0.mot.com)
on: Fri May 7 09:35:59 EDT 1999
didn't u know this is not dlkjhds... ???? That one is started for u guys.u had better contribute there.NOM :-)
- From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com)
on: Fri May 7 11:21:42 EDT 1999
There is an article about IRs sons and daughter in today's Hindu. Find below the link
- From: kitty (@ giasmdb.vsnl.net.in)
on: Sat May 8 20:16:00 EDT 1999
TOO MUCH MUSIC may be right, but defenitely not that it
was too complex or heavy. Thats his style.
- From: Raja Fan (@ spider-wd073.proxy.aol.com)
on: Wed May 12 01:18:59 EDT 1999
IR's short melody lines will become history very sooon!!! Friends, IRs recent compositions are too racy, too fast paced and has very short melody lines. Not good any more, read on. I am sorry to speak negatively, but ARRs longer melody lines is a refreshing presentation of music.
I feel that ESK is greater than I thought and you think and with Kadhaalaar dinam, this is going to surely make an impact on the music world to come. KD is potentially strong to erase IR out from anyone's memories for sometime to come. Seriously and hopingly not shockingly to you all... After Minsara Kanavu which is a monumental change from our IR type algorithm music, KD is bringing back MSV style long melody lines and we can expect a national award going again to MR. ARR. Who knows they might say take the Padma Bhushan.
- From: Ram K (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Wed May 12 03:10:33 EDT 1999
I disagree with raja fan. May be the younger generation has switched over from IR to ARR. I do agree with the fact that KD song's are good. But u have to wait and see what's in store for us in Ilayraja's music in "time" starring Prabhu deva and others. It is a fact that IR is not spending much time with his tunes. and the effort is missing combined with the miscalculation of today's taste. Probably we have to satisfy ourselves with his good numbers of the old days.
- From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com)
on: Wed May 12 11:23:19 EDT 1999
<<<<<"Minsara Kanavu which is a monumental change from our IR type algorithm music,>>>>
your quote above, could you explain me as to what the algorithm music is all about???. Minsara Kanavu brought a change ????? big joke...
- From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com)
on: Wed May 12 14:59:59 EDT 1999
Re: tune for lyrics. The only western composer who has done this is Carl Orff. He is known only for his work, Carmina Burina(Songs of Bueren). This is a collection/anthology of latin and Middle High German poems which he happened to come across.
I think IR's opinion on this is that the current lyricists do not understand the musical aspect of poetry. In one interview there could be only one tune for that lyrics, he quoted for an example (I think it was a Kannadasan song). So since he does not trust the lyricists abilities in this aspect he wants them to write to his tune. Considering, that in earlier days poets, were also composers (or vice versa),this is a very understandable logic. Even Bharathi has suggested the rAgam for all his songs.
I am sure you would agree that the current lyricists knowledge of music is very, very less. So you know why IR tries to take the upper hand. This is also goodenough reason for him to write lyrics or specify the first line and sing the song himself.
Raja Fan, you are misreading IR. He is
not taking tamil movie songs seriously at all. He is just giving what the crowd likes. Left to himself he would do films like Guru
And I just can think of ARR as a melody virtuoso. His songs pull along like a train moving in jerks. His strength
is his recording and new music genre/type for each and every movie/song.
- From: TFM_FAN (@ nat01smurugap.sgum.mci.com)
on: Wed May 12 15:16:58 EDT 1999
You aren't serious, are you?
And regarding Raja's scores in MFM, I bet if they are anywhere near to his scores in 80s in TFM. Raja has shown great loyalty to TFM audience because they were the one who first recognized Raja and TFM was where Raja made his debut and I don't think that the statements that he is not taking tamil movie songs seriously at all can be substantiated. IR's peak was in TFM. It was TFM that introduced this genius to the world. And, to say that TFM audience taste have gone down and that is why Raja is taking MFM seriously are all just crap. Guys, Raja is great but to put down TFM audience's taste is not fair. I don't think TFM audience's taste are in anyway inferior to MFM audience's taste.
- From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com)
on: Wed May 12 15:28:48 EDT 1999
Sorry to hurt any sincere TFM fan, like you. But this is the impression I get from some of his compositions and his interviews. For eg. he uses synths for many tamil movies (mostly). But in malayalam and others he still sticks to his traditional style of using real instruments (except for electronic drums in Kaliyoonjal).
I am sure he himself does not think highly of KM but it became a hit in TFW. Songs from pUnthOttam, annan, MVU, pudhupatti ponnuthAyi have gone unnoticed. How do you interpret this trend ?
So I am thinking he does stuff like KM,Kaathal Kavidhai etc for tamil and his classical stuff for other language where the modern, ARR-like sound has not caught up.
- From: eden (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Thu May 13 01:21:13 EDT 1999
For sure I agree with you on the quality of audience. It includes all of us, isn't it?
It's not the TFM fans, but the crazy film field personnel (producers, distributors, mediocre directors , ad campaigners etc.) to be blamed for any quality issues. Adding fuel to the fire are the sat TV channels that glorify musically mediocre stuff which are technologically / visually better than yesteryears.
BTW, MVU songs are for sure recoginised in TN, if my recent bus trip is any indication!!!
- From: Raja Fan (Forever) (@ spider-wg023.proxy.aol.com)
on: Thu May 13 01:54:56 EDT 1999
Friends, I think IRs music is not favoring, despite their brilliance, for the continuing lack of variety or sustained monotonous composing style of IR. His tunes are lacking in depth, lenght and breadth. Menaing, IR and KR both are composing short melody lines, too much catchiness and too much predictable stuff. And their rhtyms are not smooth flowing as a result this turns off listeners who wants more steady tempo and longer melody lines. This is where ARR scores.
- From: Sriram (@ cfp118069.det.hfh.edu)
on: Thu May 13 08:46:16 EDT 1999
Some of the songs of NMK especially 'Thendralai' has IR's touch even now. The start piece of 'Vaigai nadhikarai' is just fantastic. IR's creativity keeps going, although 'Rajasthan' is a disaster.
- From: SitaRam (@ portal.ameritech.com)
on: Thu May 13 11:57:56 EDT 1999
eden can you tell more about MVUs popularity?
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