Topic started by Anand Mahadevan (@ freedum.proxy.lucent.com) on Fri Feb 5 12:10:31 EST 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Folks in India seem to miss the obvious when it comes to recognizing talents in Music.The creator is forgoten, sadly sidelined and the singer is taken to the pinnacle of glory.Composing is a thankless job and due recognition is not given.
In her post Padma Vibushan interview,Lata Mangeshkar rolls out a big list,from her parents to her friends who have been a source of encouragment to her during her illustrious career as a playback singer but apparently forgets that if not for naushad,Shankar Jaikishen,SDB et all,she is yet another mortal.The composer goes thru the process of creation and virtually hands over his baby to the singer for execution.The singer get all the accolades and infact even the song is labeled as a Lata song.When I see Lata's greatest hits tapes/CD in stores,I sometimes use to wonder wether the media has taken us for a ride.I am yet to see a naushad or SDB collection.
The same is the case in TFM.We can hardly see MSV or KVM greatest hit.We attribute the core of the song to the person who renders it as opposed to the composer.
Its good to see ARR listing instrument players as this will enable us to appreciate and recognize talents.
Interestingly, I quizzed a North Indian friend on the music director of "Hum Apke hain kaun" and he had absolutely no knowledge of a guy named "Ram lakshman(who happen to be the music directors)" but had all the songs of HAHK in his finger tips.
Are we missing the obvious here?Lata seems to be the biggest beneficiary of this orchestrated campaign.
- From: Ravi (@ gluttony.cs.umass.edu)
on: Fri Feb 5 12:47:38 EST 1999
Anand: What you say might be true in TFM of the pre IR era. But I think IR pretty much changed all that. And ARR has taken it even further, so much that some his singers don't even have an identity. (Can you recall the singers of 'ennai kaanvillayE nEtrOdu' from kaadhal dEsam, apart from SPB?) Also when MGR and Sivjai were at their peak, songs used to be labelled Sivaji songs or MGR songs, regardless of the MD/singer/lyricist... thus collections like MGR's thathuva paadalgaL were not uncommon. It looks like that you described the state of affairs in HFM more accurately than in TFM.
- From: bhoorisravas (@ synvpn.synplicity.com)
on: Fri Feb 5 14:06:44 EST 1999
Actually, I hv a set of SDB cassettes, Naushad cassettes, OPN cassettes etc. Of course, they are less popular and fewer in number.
- From: Murali Sankar (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Fri Feb 5 15:44:07 EST 1999
Yes, you are absolutely right. If you see the banners of the cassette shops, you will find that a vast majority of them have IR picture (painted). In rare cases you find KJ's (or Rajni's:))and I have not seen any picture of SPB or any other person's.
I think it is the name and fame of IR which entirely revolutionized TFM. In hindi, as all have pointed out, one goes for "Kishore Kumar's"songs, "Rafi's" songs wtc.. but hardly for a Naushad of SJK song. But in tfm it is different. I really adore IR for such a transformation.
- From: SM (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Fri Feb 5 19:31:27 EST 1999
Of course, you are right when you say that in the cassette shops, a vast majority of cassettes and CDs wil have IR's picture in them. But, I have seen a lot of other CDs with pictures of PS, KJY, SPB, Rajni, MGR, "Shivaji" Ganesan (Even Prabhu was there in some of them). I am not telling this to you after seeing one or two shops. I have seen a lot of shops which has collections like this. Believe it or not, in one of the shops they had a large collection of PS like this :
1) PS sings for KRV
2) PS sings for Devika
3) PS sings for Saroja Devi, Savithri, Padmini
4) Memorable hits of PS
5) Everlasting hits of PS
and so on
Silimarly for SPB, there were :
1) Memorable duets of SPB-SJ
2) SPB and ILayaraja
3) Golden duets of SPB
4) SPB and Rajni hits
5) SPB sings with PS, SJ and VJ
6) "Paadum Nila" Balu hits
7) SPB - Kamal hits
and so on
- From: SM (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Fri Feb 5 19:34:13 EST 1999
I was rather surprised when you said you couldn't find any cassettes with SPB's picture in it.
- From: Sriram (@ 51-ppp-a.cvx02.agis.net)
on: Fri Feb 5 20:47:09 EST 1999
Hey, udhaikaadheenga, but let me tell you that "keladi kanmani" audio cassette has only SPB on its cover.
- From: raja (@ spider-te083.proxy.aol.com)
on: Sat Feb 6 08:00:49 EST 1999
IMO, in TFM IR made that difference. Earlier the source of music to most listeners was the radio and LPs to a few who could afford. Purchasing cassettes mainly due to IR's brand name probably changed the buying trend .
In HFM, maybe due to the fact that the market is bigger than TFM, the same songs are repackaged and resold as Lata's hits/Naushad's hits.. The problem with this is one always ends up with some good songs and some average which are generally FFd.
Anand, the point you mentioned how ARR makes an effort of dishing out more info about the supporting artists in the album is a good point.
Just as in HFM, we have "revival series" where classic HFM is cleaned up, digitally enhanced and sold( and these are the original songs from the original sountrack), does any one have any info on whether this is being done for old tfm classics?
- From: Murali Sankar (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Sun Feb 7 00:52:29 EST 1999
I think I need to give a clarification. I said that "shops" have "IR"'s picture painted on "them". I never made a comment on the cassette covers. The banners of shops all have IR's picture predominantly.
Hope it clears.
- From: nakkeeran (@ inet-fw4-o.oracle.com)
on: Mon Feb 8 14:58:47 EST 1999
I've seen these revival stuff from RPG( HMV). The hindi one was good in terms of sound quality. Apparently, they don't do it for (old) Tamil songs. Recently I bought a 2 CD set of SPB's goldies from RPG, with songs ranging from mid-70's to mid-80's, but guess what, the audio quality was pathetic. I mean, the quality I got for $22 I shed, was really disappointing!
But then, I've also heard a CD of old Yesudass songs, done by HMV(EMI) of UK, which is digitally mastered, and found the quality pretty decent. Wonder why these guys in India dont wake up!
- From: raja (@ icon2116.iconnet.com)
on: Tue Feb 9 13:23:15 EST 1999
Another thing I noticed, the quality of the cassette also depends on which year the cassette was re-issued ( e.g. 12/88 - printed on the cover), some of the HFM cassettes I bought were good .
I remember a fews ago in Bombay, went to an HMV sale, picked up a lot of cassettes on sale ( hits of SDB etc - the life was so short) and after a few times of playing the cassettes were useless.
- From: SRK (@ nova21.cs.wisc.edu)
on: Thu Apr 1 17:07:56 EST 1999
This applies outside the realm of film music too.
People seem to think that Classical music performers are better than film composers. Pt Ravishankar, Hariprasad Chaurasia and Zakir Hussain are far more popular than say Ilayaraja or SDB or MSV. I wonder why. With all respect to these artists, as far as compositional abilities go, I think the latter are more deserving. I don't know about Ravishankar or Zakir, but I've listened to Hariprasad Chaurasia's compositions - they are outright bad.
- From: SitaRam (@ portal.ameritech.com)
on: Thu Apr 1 17:46:19 EST 1999
I agree with you. This is all hype by reporters in India, who happened to be personal friends of the singers. It also means our reporters are really ignorant. They themselves did not care to know who the composer was. That is how Lata M got so much publicity over the composer. Lata is not really known for her humility, unlike Jesudas. In India it is sad that we ignore the most talented people, the composers. Only singers and classical musicians are given praise, when 3/4th of India still enjoy only mostly pleasing film songs over the really complex classical music.
- From: Rags (@ qt-ce.singnet.com.sg)
on: Thu Apr 1 20:49:28 EST 1999
Thats a very perspective view about Lata getting all the credit fr "her" songs while it was the MDs who created those songs in the first place.
My 2 cents on this: Lets not forget, Lata continues to sing today and the likes of Anil Biswas, Madan Mohan, SDB, RDB, OPN, Hemant...hv long ceased to exist. With absolutely full kudos to these MDs who went on to define Indian Film Music, it was the likes of Lata, Rafi, Talat, Shamshad Begum, who gave life to the songs to make it immortal. I do not understand why crib about Lata getting the credit - at her peak, she could make even lesser mortals seem like great MDs (to name K-A as one of them).
To illustrate my point from recent times - hear the songs of Nayakan and Nayakudu. The music were all set by Ilayaraaja. One had singers like Mano, IR, TL Maharajan...etc and the the Telugu version had just one name - SPB. The quality of the songs reach a different plane altogether with SPB. Thus MDs matter so long as he singer can make the song exceptional. QED.
Pls don't assume that to mean that MDs are irrelevant. IR and ARR hv shown the singers sometimes don't matter. But thats fr songs which actually do not need any singers (as TMS had once remarked rather sulkingly !!). You create a great song - you need a great singer to make it immortal.
So Lata can hv all her credit - and justifiably so.
- From: eden (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Thu Apr 1 23:33:32 EST 1999
IR has shown, not `sometimes', but `always' that singers do not matter. All the first four movies of BR didn't have SPB; no one ever bothered who sand.
There is no second opinion that IR has `ruled' in TN for 2 decades- not allowing singers, lyricists or even directors & hero /heroines to enter into his musical territory.
He got his due credits too as already informed by postings above. (music shop paintings, banners, posters, cassette covers etc. I myself have CD's titled `Hits of IR -Vol.1,2 etc.)
- From: eden (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Thu Apr 1 23:37:48 EST 1999
sand to read as sang.
To add : all strictly IMO.
I also want to add : A reason for IR's supposed decline in TF can be this over-adulation also. (Probabaly calling him `Ragadevan' etc. and comparing him with gods has probably got into his head affecting his thirst to continue on top)
- From: Rags (@ qt-ce.singnet.com.sg)
on: Fri Apr 2 01:29:39 EST 1999
Sorry sir. The movies of BR had excellent vocal support from SJanaki (so what if SPB wasn't there - there are othjer great voices too you see)and Jency and superb rendetion of folk songs by Malaysia Vasudevan. BTW SPB sang "Mudal mudalaga kaadal duet pada vandene" in "????" directed by BR.
EVERYONE noticed S Janaki (rightaway with "Machana Pathingala" to "Sendoora Poove" getting her a National award)then. Imagine someone like LR Eswari singing Sendoora Poove !!
IR did depend a lot on the singers. But NO DOUBTS about his standing in his own right as a MD.
And now lets get back to the thread...shall we ?
- From: raja (@ icon2066.iconnet.com)
on: Fri Apr 2 08:40:08 EST 1999
The song is from Niram Maradha Pookal.
- From: eden (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Fri Apr 2 09:05:25 EST 1999
I said first four movies of BR.
1. 16 vayadhinile
2. Kizhakke pogum rayil
3. Sigappu rojakkal
4. Pudhiya vaarpugal
NMP for the 5th movie and the 1st BR movie to bomb in the box office (at least relatively)! No I don't say this to point some finger at SPB. Just to prove the accuracy of my statement.
- From: Dorairaj Pichaiyan (@ gateway7.ey.com)
on: Fri Apr 2 12:19:49 EST 1999
I kinda agree with you that SPB's voice did not suit BR's movies that much as Malaysia Vasudevan's . The reason being, BR's movie had mostly folk songs which suited malaysia's voices better.
Kovil Mani Osai - Kizhake Pogum Reyil
(A Brilliant perfomance by MV)
Malargalee - Do
Atukuti Mutai - 16 vayathinele
Entha Minmeniku - Sigappu Rojakal
(Another Classic song)
- From: Neels (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Fri Apr 2 15:07:13 EST 1999
When IR ruled the industry in the Eighties, the hype surrounding cassette release and marketing of music through the various TV channels was virtually non-existent. The 'exposure' to music was limited. And being the strongest musician around, no wonder he got the spontaneous appreciation from the masses. And people (read filmwallahs) started believing that it was IR who made jubilee hits out of run-of-the mill films and hence bestowed him with honors (a practice so tyical of Tamils... which I doubt Raja was comfortable with). I don't know why Tamil journalists in Madras found it offending when a Sigaporean Tamil girl addressed the present CM as 'Mr. Karunanidhi'. They said, "How dare she not call him Kalaignar?"
Well, KVM, MSV, IR, and now ARR have been the most appreciated MDs around and I don't think any of them ever willingly stole the credits that were due to the singers. It's nice to note that ARR ensures the recognition of the Harmony singers and the musicians in album covers.
It hardly happens with the HFM MDs.
- From: RaGa (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Wed Apr 7 03:31:28 EDT 1999
you are very much right neels. In addition to that IMO, the singers are brought out to the limelight once they've given a song with the MD's in TFM nowadays whereas in HFM the singers come here, sing, get their name familiarised and go back.
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