Topic started by Raja Fan (Forever) (@ spider-th023.proxy.aol.com) on Fri May 14 22:23:39 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
The secret for musical success in the 90s and beyond as the future listeners are more savvy, discerning and urbane!
This is a serious topic for the fact that this are the secrets of ARRs success. I am taking off from two important observations in two other threads that went unnoticed by many of you. (I have to get the names of those great music lovers in this forum.) Very good observations.
1. IR has followed 99% of the time: Prelude + (short and algorithmic bridge type)pallavi + interlude + (sentimental and jumpy) charanam. (It has got boring and predictable and out of fashion. What is new about it anymore.) ARR is trying hard to change that pattern...
In my opinion he has succeeded in Minsara kanavu, En Swasa Kaatre and Kadhalar Dhinam. Unbeatable compositions
2. ARRs swaras are longer and slower. This is ARR's secret for success. Less focus on interludes (first of all his strenght is his melody and he has not content for interludes. work fine surprisingly) People want to sing not imagine the interludes. Interludes and preludes probably will go out of fashion the way ARR had given great emphasis on traditional instruments and longer melody lines.
3. My own observation: Because of longer melody lines, people like to sing openly with other people, longer and slower melody lines appear to be more complete, less sentimental and can be sung by groups of people at all levels. No one is shy to sing a ARR song in public or even at corporate parties, examples of places where people are very conscious and can put on airs. Would anyone in the snobbish crowd sing a IR or anyone else's song. They would sing a ARR sing.
Why am I bringing this up? Well, because this is why IRs songs are probably going out of fashion with the younger crowd. And, IRs belief is that until he conquers all of music, he will not stop. So, he has still not conquered music and Thank God which means IR will not give up that easily. I hope IR or KR gets to read this and understand this important criticism.
In conclusion, I was listening to KR's extraordinary composition Laila Laila from Kaadhal Kavidhai. Astounding, but still it is so racy and erratic. If he had made it slower and with a steady rhythm this song would have been a super world song. What a fantastic composition. This point also goes to IRs early recent compositions. Too jerky, too many rhythms and too fast as I have state in another thread. Can we just tear to pieces some of IRs and KRs songs and also highlight how they could have been better if they slowed the numbers down. Also, please talk about ARRs melody lines. I think we are getting back to the pre-IR days and mridangam. ARR is simply emulating MSV!!!!! He started off by imitating IR (which is why I did not like his jerky songs) but now it is MSV.
This will be very enlightening and educative for future composers in this forum too!!!
- From: Raja Fan (@ spider-wi052.proxy.aol.com)
on: Sat May 15 01:39:07 EDT 1999
IRFAN/SPM hardcore IR fan, nEengaLavadhu eDhachum input saiyinga!
Anyone seen how lyrics has gained more limelight these days because of longer melody lines?!
- From: Madhan (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Sat May 15 02:19:16 EDT 1999
Raja Fan :
"................ the 90s and beyond as the future listeners are more savvy, discerning and urbane" - !!!! What is the exact meaning of this "Urbaneness" ? are you implying that before 90s, music listeners were 'pattikaattu' in their approach to music ? unga tone sariyillaiyey,MMM....
Anyway, I have not yet listened to ESK, KD or Padaiyappa - so I cannot pass judgements ..
"ARRs swaras are longer and slower. This is ARR's secret for success. Less focus on interludes (first of all his strenght is his melody and he has not content for interludes. work fine surprisingly) People want to sing not imagine the interludes. Interludes and preludes probably will go out of fashion the way ARR had given great emphasis on traditional instruments and longer melody lines. "
I think you are saying the exactly the opposite of the truth !! ARR and melody ?!!? come on, Raja Fan, let us be more discrete - how do you define melody here ? are you mistaking "catchy tune bits " to "melody" ? if so, then ARR's music is more catchy than melodious....
"..............Because of longer melody lines, people like to sing openly with other people, longer and slower melody lines appear to be more complete, less sentimental and can be sung by groups of people at all levels. No one is shy to sing a ARR song in public or even at corporate parties, examples of places where people are very conscious and can put on airs. Would anyone in the snobbish crowd sing a IR or anyone else's song. They would sing a ARR song...."
Again I disagree with you - who cares whether some "snobbish" group in a "corporate office" sings or not sings IR's songs ? ARR's songs may be preferred because of the national level popularity they have got , but not necessarily for their melodic content -
- From: yArO (@ client-116-209.bellatlantic.net)
on: Sat May 15 07:53:13 EDT 1999
ARR's one and only strength is to know what loop CDs to buy...
- From: eden (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Sat May 15 08:04:53 EDT 1999
....and to carry out Cut and Paste!!
- From: eden (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Sat May 15 08:35:47 EDT 1999
Raja fan, please listen to the following songs:
1. Raththiriyil pooththirukkum
2. Kanmaniye pesu, mounanmenna kooru
3. Vaanile thenila aduthe paduthe vanampadi
4. Sittukku sella sittukku oru
5. Raasave onna naan eniththan
6. Rasaththi onna kanatha nenju
7. Unnaiththane thanjam endru
These are just a few examples of so called `long' melody lines stuff you're looking for. IR is a master in all categories. Please avoid comparing a Great Emperor with a kurunilam!!! (in musical repertoire, I mean)
- From: NOT RAJAFAN'S FAN (@ daecfp01.sprint.com)
on: Mon May 17 10:51:45 EDT 1999
ONE MORE THREAD TO AVOID. THE CREATOR OF THE THREAD IS CLUELESS ABOUT MUSIC, LYRICS, IR, AND ARR. HE HAS JUST WRITTEN A LONG MEANINGLESS AND CONFUSING PARAGRAPH TO "FEEL GOOD" ABOUT HAVING STARTED A THREAD AND SEEING HIS NAME IN PRINT. PETTY EGO BOOST, THAT'S ALL! ANY MORE DISCUSSION ON THIS TOPIC WILL ONLY HIGHLIGHT OUR OWN BOREDOM!!!
- From: Raja Fan (@ spider-wd084.proxy.aol.com)
on: Tue May 18 13:56:32 EDT 1999
Isn't time for IR to compose ballads or go Northie too instead of churning up endless stuff in the traditional short pallavi+interlude+charanam? This way, I am sure IR will also get exposed to more variety than folk. This experience will enable IR to beat ARR in his own game.
I think IR should stop composing for Southie films and go completely Northie in his next 200 ventures of go for ballads for musical plays like Lloyd Webber. This definitely will enbale IR to showcase all his skills in a much longer time frame than his current film songs does.
- From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com)
on: Tue May 18 21:00:26 EDT 1999
Sorry to say this. But to comment on IRs work you need to be really qualified. (Whether you like his songs or not is a different issue and you are free to hold any opinion).
I suggest that you read up on Carnatic music primers on the web and also 'How to listen to Music' by Aaron Copland.
I also found another book, "how to listen to mozart" very useful as it made me appreciate his music more.
Dont think I am patronising you. But these things are just like playing games. You have to know the rules before you play. Ofcourse, a sense of music comes naturally to everybody but some knowledge enhances the experience.
(you are right about Andrew LLoyd Webber. IR is already doing what you are suggesting. Our movies are anyways musicals. Also, IRs music is also very similar to Andrew Lloyd Webbers' -derived from Classical music).
- From: Raja Fan (@ spider-wo013.proxy.aol.com)
on: Wed May 19 01:14:32 EDT 1999
kiru, you are right. I totally agree. I am quite surprised that ARR blossomed out of somethings not given attention by IR. No one in their right senses can say that IR cannot do this or that, what I am saying is IR in his monotonous churing out has quite forgotten to think laterally, instead was thinking in a linear fashion!!! This TFM forum is full of die-hard IR fans like you and me and some criticism will not bring IR down. You see I must put it down here: IR can churn any of the cr-p of ARR or a 100 ARRs put together in a much better manner, but ARR is still not close to anywhere getting that level of perfection, intricacy, SWEETNESS of melody and speed which is IR's unbeatable legacy to music. While ARRs melody and recording are getting better, his melodies are not sweet to the ears after a few listenings and the orchestration gets while absolutely exotic is monotonous. Even after Kadhalar Dhinam many times, I am easily able to get back to any IR song and feel like crying at IRs compositions. Raja brings tears with his simple melodies.
So, people here, please don't think I am putting IR down with this and a few other threads. But, at the same time I am also congratulating ARR for waking up an entire country which IR refused to go for in his hey time, which he could have easily accomplished a 1000 times faster.
- From: Raja Fan (@ spider-tr053.proxy.aol.com)
on: Wed May 19 03:44:24 EDT 1999
TFM Forum Chiefs: I admit in 'retrospect' this introspective topic is stupid.
I would request you to please really, really, close this and throw it into the archives at the earliest event.
Thanks every one for holding back your frustration on seeing such topics!!! ;----)
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