Topic started by NagasubramaniaN (@ fw.baan.nl) on Fri Dec 4 01:26:45 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
today's dinakaran has this info.
IR gets Lathamankeshkar award given by MP state govt.
Any idea about this award & other persons who got this award ???
- Old responses
- From: Neels (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Fri Apr 20 02:18:31 EDT 2001
As for the versatility factor, it would really be interesting to see the listings.. the comparison then would speak for itself.
If I may say so, your posting lacks the maturity of TFM regulars like rajaG. There are better ways to put your view across (if there's one in the first place).
Here's looking forward to the comparison chart and subsequently, a healthy discussion.
You asked rajaG:
Madan Mohan,C Ramchandra fill up all the slots, seems you have not heard them at all. Anil Viswas will fill all except the western style.
I would like to hear those numbers of Madan Mohan and CR and of course AB. Will you please provide a list?
By the way, I am just curious, how many albums of IR have you listened to so far? And how old are you?
- From: SL (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Fri Apr 20 04:19:55 EDT 2001
rajaG mama in form :). The topic of discussion being cinema music, versatility is solely dependent on the situation presented by the director of the movie, to score a song for (ahaa! yenna thaththuvam:). The blame does not rest with the composer. All said and done, old HFM composers would have risen to the occasion when presented with the right situation, songs for teasing, dappangooththus, et all (which were not too frequent those days). Anil Biswas made his exit in the early 50s itself (discounting his occassional forays in the 60s) as film music did not send his adrenalin flowing any longer. But during his tenure of 15 or so years, he had numbers like 'aye jAnE jigar', 'rAhee matwalE' which had polyphonic music +great orchestration thrown in for good measure, atleast good enough to erase all doubts about his command over the so called Western 'style' of presentation. So that's that, it's all dependent on the movie director.
Prolificity as a factor can be very misleading when only the numbers are taken into account. Factors like percentage of noteworthy compositions and the overall attitude of the composer come into picture. Often in the case of MSV and IR (when they where doing around 45 movies a year), the quality of output suffered. They fell into a rut and did not seem to be 'labouring' on their compositions. In the 80s itself, several songs seemed to be merely an extension of another. Talking about attitudes, composers like Naushad curbed their avarice and restricted themselves to working on movies that challenged their skills. Please do not mistake it for lack of ability. He could have done it too (being prolific) , had he compromised on quality.
As for Lata vs Chitra argument, it is unfair to compare a singer who defined playback singing (with absolutely no precedence at all) and subtle emoting with a singer who has had the good fortune of coming in with 50+ years of precedence with every aspect of playback singing already defined. Chitra has not exactly redefined playback singing. The idea is not to take away Chitra's fantastic achievements, but it's all so lopsided.
Finally, its not possible to rank one great composer over another or reserve the no.1 spot given the different eras and the corresponding requirements. Coming back to the topic, a composer is obviously more vital than a singer.
- From: observer (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Fri Apr 20 06:21:47 EDT 2001
SL: I agree completely with you about the compromise between quality and quantity. I don't know about MSV (haven't listened to many of his works) but IR's average level (*not* best) was rather average ;) throughout the late 80s and early 90s. There was a lot of monotonicity in his compositions save for some 30% or so of them. In fact, it seemed as though he wasn't putting any enthusiasm into his compositions either.
But, as for old HFM composers, great as they are in melody, it is hard to predict what they might have done had they been given the appropriate situations. We can only go by what they did give. I have no doubt that they were all second to none in composing melodies. But if you take folk music for example, not all of them were equally successful - I think SDB stands out among the rest here. There is such an amazing feel of maN vAsanai in his songs, which IMO was matched by none of his contemporaries!
- From: Karthik S (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Fri Apr 20 08:17:21 EDT 2001
Observer: I agree your statement on IR not putting enough enthu in his recent numbers. But I'm sure this statement of yours is gonna attract a LOT of flame messages!
- From: kiru (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Fri Apr 20 11:20:12 EDT 2001
Here comes the flame that Karthik was referring to ..nah :) everybody has the right to their own opinion. Re: prolificity - can somebody tell me how many songs have the HFM masters composed ?
- From: LV (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Fri Apr 20 11:39:39 EDT 2001
My e-mail ID is "firstname.lastname@example.org" . We'll have the discussion there - else I'll be literally killed for discussing HFM on a TFM page, whcih I have already done. Trust me - please give me your e-mail Id. I swear that I wont send you spam-mail or virused files, please. And as soon as our discussion is over, I'll stop. Sorry for being rude to you - really - especially since you seem to be senior to me in terms of age(I'm about 20). But Srinath, your friend was particularly nasty to me. Anyway....
(In my earlier posts, I have given nearly 20 concrete evidences as to how the silly allegations on Lata being 'manipulative' are totally wrong and a mere result of jeaalousy of her stupendous success and terrific popularity and respect that no other singer (even classical) has got. And she has maintained her position right through the 40s,50s,60s,70,s80s, and some part of the early 90s.)
- From: Fliflo (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Fri Apr 20 11:50:50 EDT 2001
"I'll be literally killed for discussing HFM on a TFM page, whcih I have already done"
How do you call a mistake done knowingly? :-))..Many are not aware of Hindi film/songs (except some famous ones)..Your discussions really threw some shades of enlightment in first few stretches. Beyond that, don't mistake me, slowly the keenness of knowing something new and different fades away and signs of boredom started..LV, though informative, your long, untiring effort posts were like a "bubble-gum". It's time to spit, I guess. Well, ultimately I donno whether you achieved your aim of flagging.
- From: observer (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Fri Apr 20 12:32:24 EDT 2001
Kiru: I don't think any of the HFM greats exceeded 100 movies. Naushad - 80, SDB - about 50 I think. (SDB has a lot of work in Bengali.)
There was a really healthy competition in HFm back those days - it was never monopolized, everyone gave their best most of the time. It was certainly the golden era of Hindi Film music.
- From: Balaji (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Fri Apr 20 12:38:48 EDT 2001
===> There was a really healthy competition in HFm back those days - it was never monopolized, everyone gave their best most of the time.
Though there was a healthy competiton in MD dept, the female palyback was monopolized by Mangeshkar Sisters which lead to a vaccum which continues even now! It was ugly/unhealthy!!
===> It was certainly the golden era of Hindi Film music.
- From: rajaG (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Fri Apr 20 14:01:50 EDT 2001
SL: Paucity of teasing and dappaanguththu situations? I have just one word - Shammi Kapoor:-) Anyway, neenga sonnaa konjam yOsichchu paakka vEndiya vishayam thaan. umm.....aduththa thadava anti-IR stance eduththuttaa pOchchu:-) :-)
- From: rajaG (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Fri Apr 20 14:06:29 EDT 2001
SL: agreed that KSC was not a peer of Lata and benefited from an existing model. Would you say the same about Asha? Would you disagree that Asha left a distinct stamp on certain genre of film songs that EVEN Lata had to either follow or not venture into?
- From: SL (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Fri Apr 20 15:19:38 EDT 2001
G, agreed...about Asha. A rare genius. What I meant was, we have heard the old greats (like Rafi, Kishore, TMS, PBS) singing those 'teasing' numbers (and they did well too!), but when SPB sings 'namma ooru singAri' or 'thEN sumantha mullai thAn nAn', we know that he has gloriously ventured into an unchartered territory. I do not experience this when I listen to today's lady singers, though excellent they are. As a digression within a digression, we need another LR Eswari today.
Most of Shammi Kapoor's movies went to Shankar-Jaikishen / OP Nayyar and I thought they did a good job of it.
Overall, I really wish IR, MSV and SPB (in singing) had been less prolific.
- From: rajaG (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Fri Apr 20 15:30:55 EDT 2001
SL: Them being prolific resulted in repetition. I wonder if they have failed to create something which they wanted to create due to paucity of time (spent on being prolific). But, after all it can only be a guess!
- From: SL (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Fri Apr 20 16:09:34 EDT 2001
rajaG, I do not think they really failed to create something they wanted to. They compromised on quality when they could afford to (very clever of them!!), typically for the run of the mill movies. But when it was a Maniratnam/Kamal movie (in the case of IR) or a Hindi remake/MGR movies (in the case of MSV), they NEVER failed. Interesting to note that such compromises were made after they had established themselves firmly. In the late 50s /early 60s (MSV), he could come out with aces for a stereo-typical 'Sivaji's sOga syndrome' situation like 'yArantha nilavu' which otherwise demanded a standard composition meant for a melancholy number. Most of the trash movies of the late 70s like 'avar enakkE sontham', 'annakkiLi' owed their very existance to IR. The value they added to a normal/standard situation in Tamil films out of personal initiative was amazing during their formative years.
- From: cosmician (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Sat Apr 21 07:37:39 EDT 2001
SL....What about Ramarajan films....IR had definitely tuned some stand-out numbers there and these made the films run....? I think it was not IR who compromised but over-zealous producers and directors who begged and cajoled IR into composing anyhting....I remember some film...the beginning has some aarti of IR being taken and starts with his song...when this "anbu thollai" becomes so much....IR has to compromise...come on give the man a break....he can't please everyone can he ? Or he has to work like ARR and risk being called proud and snobbish...even ARR had to compromise on some films doing it as an obligation.....
- From: lv (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Sat Apr 21 11:14:01 EDT 2001
dear balaji,In my earlier posts, I have given nearly 20 concrete evidences as to how the silly allegations on Lata being 'manipulative' are totally wrong and a mere result of jeaalousy of her stupendous success and terrific popularity and respect that no other singer (even classical) has got. And she has maintained her position right through the 40s,50s,60s,70,s80s, and some part of the early 90s.)
- From: lv (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Thu Apr 26 10:08:56 EDT 2001
do you want a list showing how Madan Mohan/RDB/SJ/Chitragupt and many more including CR into every category?
- From: e.hari (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Thu Apr 26 11:28:42 EDT 2001
Can you sent me?. I would like to see. My email id is email@example.com
- From: Common Friend (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Thu Apr 26 11:52:54 EDT 2001
aah LV. Where were you? Good to see you again.
- From: SURIYAN (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Wed May 2 07:49:36 EDT 2001
V R Ur fans
U R REALLY GREAT
KR have to Acheive more more as U
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