Topic started by Vimal (@ 220.127.116.11) on Fri Nov 13 18:21:14 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
I felt that I should start discussing about this query as I feel these days, Raja is not at all giving the class of music that he used to few years ago. I really doubt if he'll be able to reproduce the Magic of Mouna Ragam or Agni Nakchathiram. I'm a die-hard raja fan and am starting this topic out of Anxiety.
- From: SUREN (@ usern498.uk.uudial.com)
on: Fri Nov 13 21:42:50 EST 1998
WHERE ARE YOU LIVING MATE.ARE YOU LIVING IN MARS OR?//? HAVE YOU LISTENED TO GURU, [MALAYALAM],WHWT ABOUT K. MARIYATHAI.INDIA 24 HRS???? NOT YET .POOR CHAP. WILL TALK TO YOU LATER.
- From: NagasubramaniaN (@ fw.baan.nl)
on: Sat Nov 14 00:30:50 EST 1998
listen to latest albums of raja MVU,PVK,DG,thalaimurai& others., he is in terrific form man., he is the no. 1 MD in TFM now & always. don't worry !
- From: wait_for_KK (@ bowerbird.qut.edu.au)
on: Sat Nov 14 05:30:13 EST 1998
just hang on.. till "kaadhal kavidhai" arrives..
there'll be no doubts after that.
- From: N.C. Ramakrishna (@ 170-108-115.ipt.aol.com)
on: Sat Nov 14 13:03:50 EST 1998
I think your query should be why TF Industry is not making IR to give his best. Follow his hits in Malayalam and Kannada than Tamil.
- From: Saranga Kumar (@ kcpxy5.att.com)
on: Sat Nov 14 17:45:35 EST 1998
What about the BGM score in 'Kathalukku Mariyadhai'? Outstanding stuff.
- From: karthik (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Sun Nov 15 15:53:33 EST 1998
Wait till his symphony arrives!!! Who knows? Mankind will even start colonizing mars by that time.
- From: Neels (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Mon Nov 16 05:04:34 EST 1998
Well said Karthik.
I don't know how long IR's fans have to wait for his symphony.
It's so mysterious, all these reasons attribted to the delay of this album...
IR should release the symphony through a decent label like Sony Music and the guys should make a cool video, market it well and I'm sure there are people out there ready to lap it up. Afterall, Vanessa Mae became an overnight celibrity with just one of her violin pieces...
- From: vimal (@ visy1.eas.asu.edu)
on: Mon Nov 16 13:48:37 EST 1998
thanks. I'm eagerly waiting for KK to hit the market. One more thing, I think Raja will do a lot good for himself and his music if he reduces his singing, and his daughters. His daughter is singing awful. I did listen to MVU frankly, it didn't impress me that much. KM is just too good, I agree.
- From: vimal (@ visy1.eas.asu.edu)
on: Mon Nov 16 13:49:22 EST 1998
thanks. I'm eagerly waiting for KK to hit the market. One more thing, I think Raja will do a lot good for himself and his music if he reduces his singing, stops promoting his daughter. She's singing awful. I did listen to MVU frankly, it didn't impress me that much. KM is just too good, I agree.
- From: .SURIPRI (@ userj187.uk.uudial.com)
on: Mon Nov 16 15:37:31 EST 1998
I thought the topic was about IR`s music.Not about his daughter singing.U can start a thread later about bhavadharini`s wonderful voice.please stick to the topic.
- From: vimal (@ visy1.eas.asu.edu)
on: Mon Nov 16 17:35:25 EST 1998
i don't think I'm deviatin gfrom the topic. There are many wondeful tunes composed by Raja that I feel are spoilt by his singing and let his daughter sing. For eg., in the film Poonthottam, one song that goes like "Iniya Pookal" or something like that. Had it been rendered by anyone else, it would've sounded very beautiful. Likewise, in Paatu Pada Vaa, the song "Vazhividu" would have sounded a lot different had he allowed SPB to complete the song. I sing Raja sings too much these days and it one of the reasons that many of his beatiful works go unnoticed. Thats my humble opinion.
- From: Mukund (@ sdwwwgw01.sd.nmp.nokia.com)
on: Mon Nov 16 17:42:58 EST 1998
I find the same Iniya Malargal so fascinating because IR had sung the song in a great manner. My humble opinion. I like IR's voice. Has the additional emotional edge and involvement that other singers do not have.
- From: sabesan (@ mask1.affi.net)
on: Mon Nov 16 18:00:07 EST 1998
I also agree with Mukund on the song mentioned... i think u read some review in vikatan... but i agree with u for another song on the same movie "vanathilirundhu gudhichu...."... well main culprit being the lyrics...
- From: SURIPRI (@ userk589.uk.uudial.com)
on: Mon Nov 16 20:00:13 EST 1998
THANKS AGAIN,I STILL DISAGREE WITH U R HUMBLE OPINION.TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT IR`S VOICE, BUT HIS MUSIC.WE KNOW MANY SINGERS WHO HAVE SPOILT HIS BEAUTIFUL TUNES INCL HHARN+MANO,NOT TO MENTION OTHERS.AND U KNOW IT VERY VERY WELL MATE.LET`S TALK ABOUT HIS MUSIC WHICH IS ON TOP AGAIN.I KNOW MANY ARR`S DIEHARD FANS ,SH---ING HOT BRICKS AT THE MOMENT.WE TALK ABOUT IT LATER.
- From: radha (@ d994.pppdel.vsnl.net.in)
on: Tue Nov 17 01:06:00 EST 1998
all of u IR fans stop being so senti about his music-he is sure one of the gggggreatest(if u all please)mds of this era but don't deify him forgetting his indifferent compositions for many no. of films compared .there was a time when he was ruling the roost all rightbut that doesn't make him the modern day mozart or beethoven.I still have my doubts about the quality of the symphony that he's composed - if any of u guys think he can produce something as breathtaking as beethoven's fifth i surrender, but don't pass arbitrary remarks like he's mozart himself and some pulp tam mag stuff.he has his own limitations(which may be comparitively low)but he's certainly not up there as where u guys want to put him.he' s an extra ordinary md for the tam films may be he could have gone further had he concentrated on hindi films and the kinda music that will cater to most indians ,but his non film compositions are nothing to write home about-i am referring to NBW all the stuff bearing the hariprasad chaurasia solo is typically filmy-the conception,the orchestration everything about it-to tomtom it as one of his greatest is really ridiculous.and something that really leaves a bad taste is this tendency of the great IR fan fraternity to talk deprecatingly of all other guys arouund.Isn't IR an absolute genius?why is always compared to ARR OR any other guy?if all IR fans are convinced that he's the one why do you talk about others? shed this insecurity guys and make the tfm chat room a healthy place.
i am really sorry for this long response but whenever i visit ththis site i see some ARR or Deva bashing discussion in progress-really puts me off.
- From: Velaiyaththavan (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Tue Nov 17 02:49:54 EST 1998
Ayyayyo, idhenna vambu radha ? another from the "neutral" category ya ?
- From: Sathish (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Tue Nov 17 03:38:21 EST 1998
When u come to say that NBW is not vintage stuff, then i doubt whether u have any good musical sense. Is VANTE MATARAM a great Mozart or Beethoven stuff. Sorry Radha, just for the sake do not try to suppress Raja's great works which most think will stand ever. Just hear one time The Song of Soul" from NBW then u would know how much impact Raja's music (one and only composer in India) creates in one's heart.
So do think and analyse before passing ur comments.
I hope Radha u would understand my comments.
- From: UV (@ webgate0.mot.com)
on: Tue Nov 17 03:50:28 EST 1998
i'd appreciate if u cud kindly put forth the limitations of Raja.I can start a thread if u want.
- From: Srinath (@ ss08.nc.us.ibm.com)
on: Tue Nov 17 10:46:57 EST 1998
I agree with you that IR's non-fily works are not on par with ole' Beets or Mozzo... but his filmy albums are way ahead !
And hey ! Whatever gave you the idea that IR's music might be extraordinary for TFM but not so very spectacular for HFM ? Atleast, that's what you have implied in your posting.
As to why IR fans bash ARR and Deva, I really have no answer. I guess they need not do it. But perhaps you didn't realize that your posting is far more aggravating than the ones from IR fans. Whatever prompted you to post so aggressively is what prompts IR fans to bash ARR and Deva - intolerance, not insecurity.
- From: go for it (@ inet20.us.oracle.com)
on: Tue Nov 17 13:34:35 EST 1998
I donno why you want everyone to post sugary, buttery stuff. When it comes to discussion, one should be really involved with whatever he/she is supporting, and it's only natural to get emotional while making an argument. If all follow your standards, this forum will sound like yet another political stage meet, where everyone praises everone else, and the audience are bored to death!!
Of course, resorting to bashing others is not good; but praising one's beloved MD is definitely not bad.
Hoping to see more healthy arguments.
- From: spectator (@ inet20.us.oracle.com)
on: Tue Nov 17 13:37:03 EST 1998
I meant 'radha'; not 'radaha'
sorry for the typo!! ;-)
- From: kiruba (@ surfec011.sybase.com)
on: Tue Nov 17 15:02:57 EST 1998
I think you are the one who is getting emotional (vs IR's fans being senti). Probably, he is not Beethoven or Mozart. But compare him to Yanni. Who do you think is better ? I think IR is surely better than Yanni.
There are many factors that produce a great composer. The social/economic climate and the mentality of the individual (not just musical prowess). I think IR feels the need to prove himself so he thinks he has to succeed in the film industry. He probably does not have the guts to say, "to hell with all this dough, I am going to compose music, people may not like it now or never. I dont care". Maybe then he will have very good compositions which the world music community will appreciate maybe years after his death.
If you know IRs social background you know why he desperately wants to succeed in the music industry (atleast he did so, now he is past that I think).
So to make it big you should not only have the genius but also have enough mental strength to face all social/economic odds.
IR has done well for himself. He has made a great contribution to TFM and Indian music composing field in general.
(Some of our friends here are working on a project for remastering/rerecording his songs as instrumental versions/releasing background music. Once we accomplish this task we will have something which everybody can listen to without language barriers.I am hoping this will help popularise IR to a wider audience)
- From: Srinivas (@ pup33.stanford.edu)
on: Tue Nov 17 15:07:10 EST 1998
It is really sad to see you downplaying some of Raja's greatest compositions in NBW. I really do not know whether it is prejudice that makes you say so or a genuine lack of musical appreciation. I have played NBW to many friends and non- south Indians, and not one of them failed to be spell-bound by the compositions.
To compare Raja with Beethoven would be very unfair, both to Raja and Beethoven. For one thing, Raja does not have the kind of orchestra that can bring a W.Classical composition to life, the way Beethoven's pieces are , by the professional symphony orchestras. NBW may not be the best composition yet, but atleast it is original unlike Beethoven's 5th whose opening bars were QUOTED from a lesser known French composer :-).
- From: SURIPRI (@ usern478.uk.uudial.com)
on: Tue Nov 17 16:36:47 EST 1998
SORRY FOR MY EARLIER BASHING.NOW WE BASH RADHA.I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE SRINI`S MESSAGE.SHE DEFINETELY LACKS THE FINER SENSE OF MUSICAL APPRECIATION FOR SURE.THERE IS NO DENYING FACT THAT mozart IS BETTER THAN IR.BUT COMPARE CONTEMPORARY MUSICIANS.IR IS DEFINETELY ON PAR WITH CONTEMPORARY MUSICAL GENIUSES OF THE WORLD.HIS MUSIC IS ONE OF SUBLIME CHARACTER & UNFATHOMABLE IN PURE SPIRTS!
SAY FOR Eg KM`S BG SCORE DURING THE LAST 15 MINS OF THE CLIMAX.U FIND EVERY INSTMT,EVERY BHAVA, RAGA,EMOTION& PURITY IN THAT LAST 15 MINS,SAYS EVERYTHING ABOUT HIS MUSIC.U HAVE TO LISTEN &LISTEN.NOBODY HAS BETTERED HIM IN THAT ASPECT IN INDIAN FM SO FAR.AND THERE WON`T BE ANYBODY.ACTUALLY I WANTED TO BASH RADHA,BUT WHAT`S THE USE.ASK HER TO LISTEN TO"SONG OF SOUL"FROM NBW AGAIN& AGAIN.AND HOPE SHE GETS HER SOUL BACK!
SEE U SOON
- From: ENT specialist (@ ss02.nc.us.ibm.com)
on: Tue Nov 17 16:54:10 EST 1998
l o w e r c a s e p l e a s e . p o s t i n g i n u p p e r c a s e i s c o n s i d e r e d t o b e s h o u t i n g . a n d m o d e r a t i n g y o u r l a n g u a g e w o u l d h e l p t o o.
- From: Ravi (@ wrath.cs.umass.edu)
on: Tue Nov 17 17:21:48 EST 1998
hmmm. I have a feeling that things are getting out of hand. I am termianting the discussion here. This thread will also disappear in a day. If people are really interested in continuing this discussion, they may do so, without personal remarks on other DFers, in the TFM DF == IR fan club thread.
BTW, suripri: Please read a second time what ENT specialist has written for your benefit. :-). And Suren too.
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