Topic started by Arun (@ internet1.ford.com) on Wed Jun 25 12:54:08 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.
- Old responses
- From: Thaatha (a) Srinath (@ ss01.nc.us.ibm.com)
on: Wed Dec 9 17:38:56 EST 1998
After a long break the IR vs ARR controversy has reared it's ugly head again in the TFM. Vittukudukaradha pathi yenkittaye sollareengale, yenna anyaayam ! "Creativity of ARR" enra threada 'kashtapattu' revive panni, adhula yaarum ARR bashing pannakoodadhunnu sanda potu (not that I have any authority to do so) vandavan naan. ARR rasigargal anga poi ARRa praise pannalaame ! Yedhukku ovvoru threada poondhu IRa bash pannanum ? Nandu sundugalaam ivvalovu pesina...adha kaetuttu summa irukka sollareengala ? Oh ! btw, I am 23 ! Not 45 or 50 ! My experience is as a sometime semi-professional guitarist, not age. In 8 years, ARR has only managed to fall into one controversy after another. You don't need 8 years or 10 years to call someone a genius or to find out if someone is not a genius. ARR is tremendously talented - but from him we shall see no Johnny - no Ninaivellaam Nithya - no Mouna Raagam - no Dalapathy - and the list goes on and on and on. His flashes of brilliance began with Roja and were extinguished after Thiruda Thiruda. It is not a younger generation that prefers ARR over IR. It is a restless generation that prefers ARR. Like you said, it is fate. Nothing wrong with that. But everytime some adhigaprasangee or the other starts bashing IR unfairly, you can count on the fact that I'll be there to counter it.
- From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Wed Dec 9 19:33:33 EST 1998
Again, I can say that it is not the 'restless' generation that prefers ARR over IR, but the younger generation. This can be proved by some opinion polls in certain web sites (like minnoviyam).
Agreed that Johny, Ninaivellam Nithya, Mouna Raagam are great numbers from IR. But what is that in the end? Dalapathy? It cannot be joined in the above list. By adding "Dalapathy" to that list, you are actually disgracing your IR. The other 3 films had great music than "Dalapathy". I am an ardent Rajni fan (like how you are an IR fan) and I didn't like the music in that stupid film.
Also, don't say that ARR can't give such albums. How can we predict the future? I didn't say you are 45-50 years old. And his brilliance didn't extinguish after "Thiruda Thiruda" ("Duet", "Kizhakku Cheemayilae" and "Minsaara Kanavu" came after that).
But agreed to the fact there are certain adhigapprasangis (both from IRs side and ARRs side) who unnecessarily bash the other. If you feel ARR is better, praise him. If you feel, IR is better, praise him. And, that's it. I sincerely hope that this trend of IR bashing and ARR bashing doesn't continue.
- From: muniandi (@ visy1.eas.asu.edu)
on: Wed Dec 9 20:02:35 EST 1998
If you say that Illayaraja's score was dumb in the movie Dalapathy, then, ARR's score in Muthu is the dumbest of them all. Whenever I hear Udit Narayanan sing for Rajni in kuluvalile, enakku ippa kooda vandhi varudhu. All songs are rubbish in MUTTTHHU. Achu, Padayappa vera vara poguthu. Padayappa kett kadhula padai soriyappa..
- From: nesanp (@ sdn-ar-002txfworp314.dialsprint.net)
on: Wed Dec 9 20:40:02 EST 1998
Oru paanai soorukku, oru sooru patham.
I think ARR's eight years of work is enough to
predict his future.
BTW, I am only 21 yrs old.
- From: Srinath (@ 172-153-131.ipt.aol.com)
on: Wed Dec 9 21:00:56 EST 1998
Chinna Thaai Aval ? Yamunai Aatrile ? Sundari, kannaal Oru ? Putham Puthu Poo ? Kaatu Kuyilae ? Idhellaam ongalukku paata theriyalaya ? I mentioned Johnny to Dhalapathhy to show that over 20 years IR's quality has remained the same. Dhalapathy may not be his best album, but it is certainly better than anything that Rahman has ever come up so far.
"Duet", "Kizhakku Cheemayilae" and "Minsaara Kanavu"
Never had a good opinion about Duet. As usual ARR used gimmicks - this time it was Kadri.
Kizhakku Cheemayilae - apart from "Maanoothu" (whose lyrics you were ridiculing in the "dhjkl..." thread :)) and "Aathan kara marame", I can't think of any other reasonably catchy songs. Again, these two songs were nowhere near the class of Roja/Pudhiya Mugham/Uzhavan/Gentleman/Thiruda Thiruda.
Minsara Kanavu is another bland album with one ok song - "Vennilave, Vennilave" which you can genuinely appreciate maybe 50 times, especially with the video. After that there is nothing of interest in it. Who cares if Strawberry Kanne is a Martian Ballet song ? It is still a BAD Martian ballet song ! I also used to like "Anbenra Mazhayile" - unfortunately the gaping holes become obvious once you listen to the song 10-15 times - it is a very good melody nevertheless - yet nowhere near his first few movies. That is precisely why he is not good enough to be called a genius - there is a difference between form and class. Innikku ARR kaatla Mazha - he deserves it fully, let him enjoy the benefits. But don't ever make the mistake of thinking that he has bested IR in any way - that's really absurd (this one is for the ARR fanatics).
- From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-248.il.us.ibm.net)
on: Wed Dec 9 23:27:07 EST 1998
Srinath : Adding fuel - vennilave reminds the old number eraivan irudu boomaigal seithan than velaiyada.
Manamadura, Poo Pookum, Thangathamarai all sound good song. I don't know in what accept you say they are not good.
Happen to see kathalika neramillai - songs in this movie makes me feel your first list just nothing.
Time Changes brother.
- From: vijay (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Thu Dec 10 00:03:26 EST 1998
u have left the best one out of dalapathi, raakamma!! the starting violin/viola piece!!! i cannot ever imagine ARR coming up with such an orchestrated song!!
The basis for saying that rahman cannot come up with such scores in the future, mainly lies with the fact that a MD brings out the best in him in the initial few years in which he is trying to establish himself. even in the case of IR the best from him have been in the late 70's and early 80's in my opinion ,atleast as far as TFM is concerned.( this is for people who would imm'dtly start talking about guru and yathramozhi (:-)) ).
so in the first 8 years itself if ARR is not able to bring out anything really exceptional, on what basis can we expect something from him in the near future? If at all there is a basis or reason for expecting something good from ARR in the future, it could be that he has been composing really slow , @ 1 or 2 films per year, perhaps conserving his energy for something big in the future.
- From: vijay (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Thu Dec 10 00:06:24 EST 1998
Time really changes.earlier we used to appreciate MSV songs for sheer melody. Only after IR came into the picture, people started talking about interlude music, orchestration etc. which was missing in MSV.
after ARR came, people suddenly started talking about recording quality, etc. which was not a vital element of IR's music.
i don't really know how it is going to go from here.
- From: ganesh (@ 1cust186.tnt2.beaverton.or.da.uu.net)
on: Thu Dec 10 03:25:26 EST 1998
Can you explain to me how orchestration of thamizha thamizha song in Roja and starting sax of anjali anjali song in duet inferior to starting violin piece you are talking about! There are lots of pieces that ARR has composed that are atleast as good as the violin bit you are talking about.
What ARR has done in the last 8 years is good enough to qualify him as a 'genius'! He has composed as well as anybody else! ! To put in in simple words he has provided quality stuff and rightfully earned the place where he is today!
Anyday it is audience/listener who decides the MDs fate and ARR has won the admiration of the m
Liking ones music better is a matter of personal preference , its just that you like some pieces of dhalapathy song, i like the way ARR has used the sitar pieces in the Vande mataram track 'Masoom'.
ARR is as good(if not better) as any MD (not just IR)IMO (this is for IR fanatics).
Duet not a good album!
Anjali Anjali? Mettu Podu ? En kadalae! Title Sax peice, kannaal Oru ? Putham Puthu Poo ? Kaatu Kuyilae ? Idhellaam ongalukku paata theriyalaya ?
Give me a break!
If using kadri is a gimmick I can mention a lot of 'gimmicks' that other MDs have done.
Duet is as good as what any other MD has come up with so far!
- From: Srinath (@ 172-145-37.ipt.aol.com)
on: Thu Dec 10 09:23:16 EST 1998
Every MD at some point of time or the other uses gimmicks - even IR. But ARR's USP is using gimmicks. Duet, IMO, is a very average, very mediocre album by ARR's initial standards. Anjali Anjali is a funny kind of song - almost good - but not really classic - the irritating flute piece and the 'cons..pated' female humming, nursery rhyme-like piano pieces all contribute to the detriment of a reasonably good melody. The sax piece in Anjali is catchy and melodious but no great shakes. Tamizha Tamizha was a most impressive song - one of ARR's best. But I wouldn't go as far as saying that it equals or betters Raakkamma's orchestration. Mettu podu is no better than the umpteen dozen foot-tapping, quickly forgotten numbers that IR has scored. Just because it was ARR's we remember it well. I don't see anything spectacular in that song. En Kaadhale was another sleepy song - nothing very impressive about it. Now, before you think that I am blindly against ARR, I would ask you to listen to Raak Kozhi Rendum Muzhichirukku - how many people remember this song ? July Maatham Vanthaal ? Pudhu Vellai Mazhai ? Pennalla Pennalla ? Sevvanam, chinna penn soodum ? Chandralekha ? Putham Puthu Bhoomi ? Raasathi ? There are so many really good songs of ARR. Unfortunately people like ARR for all the wrong reasons. I have never spoken one good word about Poonthotam, Dharma, etc, etc....because I tried listening to them a couple of times and felt that I would rather listen to IR's old gems which IMO have far more in them than ANY music by ANY MD in TFM. Maybe I was even impatient with IR's newer albums...but I know very clearly what I expect in music...and I get all of it only in IR's late 70s-late 80s music. Every useful thing about music has been covered in that decade. The rest of the stuff, including IR's new stuff, is only commercial in nature. And I genuinely think people are hyping it up - something that I can't really digest.
And ganesh, yennakku therinja varaikkum Putham Puthu Poo, Kaatu Kuyile paatellaam Duet padathula varala :))) I am unable to accept Duet as a good album because even by ARR's standards I have other songs/albums to compare it with - and by those standards, Duet falls short.
ratchagan and ardent arr fan:
Thanks for posting with equanimity in the face of severe ARR criticism from me. I really appreciate it. :)
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